Don, 74, Farnham

Occupation Retired IT project manager

Voting record Always Conservative, but recently decided no party had a leader of any vision or represented his views. Now describes himself as “apolitical”

Amuse bouche He has actually kissed Ireland’s Blarney Stone. “You have to be turned almost upside down to do so”

David, 56, Weybridge

Occupation Biologist

Voting record The Democratic Alliance in South Africa, where he’s from. Green in local elections in the UK, where he’s lived since 2020. Identifies as “far left”

Amuse bouche Spent three months in the bush in Botswana studying elephants, and eight months in the jungle in Sumatra studying orangutans

For starters

David I took the train and cycled to Farnham. The pub was lovely. I had prawn arancini, then a very nicely done duck breast. Don’s a lovely guy, very personable.

Don I just had some nibbles to start, then a mushroom bourguignon pie. David’s a very engaging person. He has made his own wine – way ahead of me on that score – so he chose a very nice bottle of South African red.

The big beef

David The climate crisis is an existential threat that’s already affecting the people least able to cope. Our priorities seem to be: maximise what we can get out of the planet, then hope for some magical techno-fix, and that’s not going to happen. We’ve blown through the 1.5C target; it’s not official yet, but let’s see what this year’s El Niño does. Models say we’re going to overshoot dramatically.

Don I understand the problem is real; I’m not a climate denier. But I have trouble trying to gather together the fractured elements of what we need to do. We’re in the economic doghouse, people are more concerned with putting food on the table, a roof over their heads. It’s reported that the four biggest polluters in the world are producing about 60% of CO₂ emissions. Bringing it back to the UK, why should we be putting ourselves in greater danger to reach net zero by 2050? What if we went for 2060?

David On net zero, we’re not going fast enough. The economic and political models for adaptation are built on an incrementalist approach – each 0.1C will lead to such and such. That’s a false premise: if you look at ecosystems, it’s incremental up to a point, then you get collapse. We need to stop fossil fuel extraction as soon as possible, electrify, cut down on global travel. We need to act as if it is a crisis.

Don I’m 74, I’ve worked, done all the things I was able or wanted to do. That’s not to say I don’t care, but I’m probably more focused on what songs I want played at my funeral than what’s going to happen by 2050. My son’s views are very different. Of course, I want him to have a happy, prosperous life, but they’ve got to take up the cudgels to create the world they want.

Sharing plate

David We agreed we’re going through a period of substantial change and the political system is coming apart. Also that the current political parties aren’t offering clear, coherent leadership.

Don Unless you have some strong-minded people to make all kinds of changes that lots of people aren’t going to like, we’re going to continue in the slough of despondency.

For afters

David Don mentioned he’d travelled to South Africa and loved it. One of the things he was positive about was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I’m a big supporter, but while I think it brought closure, it also allowed people to get away with murder, literally.

Don David was there, of course; I was just reading news reports. But I thought, what a good idea: get these things on the table, get people to confess, to say how they suffered – and then try to move forward.

David My worry is about there being no consequence for malfeasance, and a lack of accountability. I’m of the opinion there’s no statute of limitations on things like that and people should face the consequences.

Takeaways

David We’ve come to different conclusions, but I think he’s been let down by the media. The polarisation of the media has poisoned the discourse.

Don I look at the Telegraph, Times, Mail, Guardian, New Statesman, Economist – left and right. David’s an affable guy, with one of those really nice, soft South African accents. He’s very easy to listen to. But we didn’t exchange contact details.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

David and Don ate at The Castle in Farnham, Surrey

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